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Rep. Murtha, can you spell V-i-e-t-n-a-m?

Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:45 AM by Hardball

According to recent remarks by Rep. John Murtha, he intends to cripple President Bush’s “surge” plan in Iraq by placing numerous restrictions on how money can be spent, stating, “They won’t be able to do the deployment. They won’t have equipment, they don’t have the training and they won’t be able to do the work. There’s no question in my mind. We have analyzed this and there’s no way this can be done.”

Perhaps the colonel –Murtha is a retired U.S. Marine Corps reservist – has forgotten the lessons we Vietnam veterans learned the hard way.  You cannot prosecute a war effectively with interference from Washington.  What he proposes, labeled the “slow bleed” by Murtha’s opponents, is exactly the type of interference and micromanagement we faced 40 years ago in Southeast Asia.

During that conflict, there were so many conditional rules of engagement and outright restrictions on the use of military power that our forces were not only fighting the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces, but the bureaucracy inside the Beltway as well.  For example, for years we were not permitted to bomb North Vietnamese targets north of 20 degrees north latitude – even when the North Vietnamese Air Force built an airfield just north of the line. 

When President Nixon finally unleashed American airpower in December 1972 (Operation Linebacker II), Air Force, Navy and Marine aircrews brought North Vietnam to its knees in a matter of days, only to be called off before delivering the final blow.  Contrast that to the Gulf War.  President Bush gave the Pentagon the mission – defend Saudi Arabia and liberate Kuwait – and let them execute it. 

Mr. Murtha wants to restrict how specific monies can be spent, how troops are trained prior to deployment, how the services determine rotation policies and manage their retention programs, etc.  He wants to require that the Defense Department allow combat veterans to have at least one year stateside before returning to the combat zone.  An admirable goal, but these are decisions best left to those prosecuting the war.  Marines normally deploy for seven months – are they expected to also wait one year before redeployment?  Where does this end?  Will the Pentagon have to clear each troop movement with Congress?

The congressman also wants to prevent the services, particularly the Army and Marine Corps, from using the Stop Loss program, a program that allows the services to retain members on active duty to the full extent of their enlistment contract (the contact includes a reserve portion).  In other words, he wants the military to stop using a legal, authorized force management tool.

In a surprising statement, Mr. Murtha called for the closure of the detention facility at Guantanamo (not sure what that has to do with Iraq) and the bulldozing of the Iraqi prison at Abu Ghraib.  Can we assume he will allocate funds to build a new terrorist prison in his congressional district?  As for Abu Ghraib, shouldn’t we allow the Iraqis to decide what to do with their facilities?

All of this boils down to congressional (political) micromanagement of the Defense Department’s conduct of a war – all the things he no doubt complained about (or should have) when he was a Marine Corps officer.

Congratulations, Colonel – you propose to do to the troops in Iraq what the Johnson and Nixon administrations did to us in Vietnam.  I hope it doesn’t turn out the same way.


 

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Comments

Speaking as a mouthpiece of NeoCons and the military war mongers is easy. You don't have to think. Just parrot what others say. The problem comes when things start to break down in your logic (or lack thereof). And therein lies the rub with LCOL Francona's latest blather - er, I mean post. The primary lesson of Viet Nam was that the U.S. shouldn't get involved in the civil war of another country. And that we can't impose democracy on those who don't want it or fight for it themselves. Other than the Kurds, who are doing just fine, the rest of Iraq has no use for us. We should have left two days after Saddam's statute fell. The Kurds need us only to establish a border that the warring Sunnis aned Shiiets will respect. That's it. But LCOL rancona, Dick Cheney's lap dog, wants more military action in Iraq so that we can inflame and draw Iran into the conflict. Then LCOL Francona can have a full time job as a military commentator. At this point I question LCOL Francon'a motives. What he proposes is not in America's best interest.
Well thought out and written. We need people like you in Congress!
Does motive make a difference when the ends might be the same? Seems to me that the micromanagement of Vietnam was blundering and led to defeat, at least according to this rather simple historical recount. Was that the intent, or did Congress believe itself more capable or managing the war? The "colonel"'s motive here is not to manage the war, but to motivate its end and withdrawal of combat forces from Iraq. I'm not saying I agree with Murtha. I tend to think you leave the experts to do the job that you assign them, and the problem is that neither the job to date has been clear, nor have the plans or resources been adequate. That being said, not all micromanagement is created equal.
Murtha not only understands this, it is what he intended all along. He knows that this will cause the war to be just like Vietnam, it also is what he desires. Democrats look back to Vietnam as their glory days. The height of their power, when they really made a difference. They have been calling Iraq a quagmire since its beginning and have been comparing it to Vietnam since before the first American tank rolled into Baghdad. They want Iraq to be another Vietnam and they want another slow, excruciating withdrawal. They want America to loose in Iraq like we did in Vietnam. Why? I don’t know. Perhaps they believe that we as a country are wrong and must be punished. Regardless, they have consistently positioned themselves politically so that they only benefit from America loosing in Iraq and the war on terror as a whole.
What I find especially interesting about this attack on Murtha's plan to help the president get out of what is a costly blunder in Iraq, is the implicit idea Vietnam was a winnable war. After killing 2,000,000 Vietnamese, does Francona really believe Vietnam was winnable if it were "prosecuted" correctly? Hey, whatever you're smoking, pass it around.
Apparently history viewed from different perspectives results in different conclusions. The war in Vietnam was, as I recall, a bureaucratic catastrophe spearheaded and masterminded by then Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara. McNamara, as did Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, ran roughshod over the Joint Chiefs of Staff and implemented war stategies that were not consistent with the orthodox military doctrine of the day (Powell). History has a strange way of repeating itself. It was not the Congress that engaged in a failed war policy but Congress did extract us from Viet Nam. It was not Congress that miscalculated the difficulty in maintaining order in a bed of sectarian hatred and civil disfunction. It was not Congress that disbanded the Iraqi Army and destroyed the civilian governing infrastructure. But , as with Viet Nam, it appears that it will be Congress that extracts us from another imperial quagmire. The remaining element of repetitive history is the apology from Donald Rumsfeld. He may want to pattern it after this one: "We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations who participated in the decisions on Vietnam acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of this nation. We made our decisions in light of those values. Yet we were wrong, terribly wrong. We owe it to future generations to explain why. I truly believe that we made an error not of values and intentions, but of judgment and capabilities." Robert McNamara.
what kind of country is America ? More confusion about which war is moral and who should decide.? All wars are imoral except when attacked. How many more children and other civilians does America want to kill for its ill conceived war. How many more young americans need to die or be insured.? Will they end up on the street homless like so many Vietnam War Veterans.?
how can we the people acually be we the people, when we are constantly being given conflecting arguments on this matter.It is the military vs political meddeling. how can we be successful in anything if there is now leadership to follow on a consistent stratigy?
MR. Murtha is nothing more than another "Son of Benedict" in his actions and words, he speaks like one who would put his own desire for power,influence and attention above the need of the nation. In my mind he is and will always be a Traidor to this country. Mr. Murtha, like Benedict Arnold once served the nation with honor, but turned on it for personal reasons.
Sir, I only had to read to the second paragraph to understand that you don't care what the cause of the fight is or if that cause is just. You talk of Vietnam as if it were justified. History and the products that are manufactured in Vietnam and sold at Walmart today put the lie to Johnson's justification of that conflict. The domino's did not fall and we did not end up fighting the Vietcong in our streets. And you still lament the lost war? I wish there had been a Murtha to get into Johnson's and Nixon's face so that we could have reduced the size and the names on that Black Wall in Washington. Yet your only concern is winning the "game". Your only concern is your teams "stats". This Country needs to be RIGHT when it fights. I am damn tired of listening to you people say "oh well, we are there now guess we have to "win". How about holding our leaders accountable for being right for a change. We are the one's that bear the cost of their haste and stupidity. And there may come a time when we refuse you the blood and money you need to get your "stats" up.
Mr. Francona only remembers what benefits his argument about both Vietnam and Iraq. Both wars were started based on Lies and distortion, a simple incident in the Gulf of Tonkin was made up to justify a huge escalation, from mostly advisors to full combat force. In this war there was a nine month campaign of lies, distortion and intimidation of any opposing voice to force this war. They thought it would be a pushover, and Mr. Francona was going along all the way with the forces that so misunderstood what this war would turn into. In TV interview after interview Mr. Francona passed along the incorrect information spead by the Bush administration as fact. From "fixing the intelligence" on WMD to support invasion to a constant drumbeat of innuendo connecting Saddam and Osama, Mr. Francona and his friends in the Whitehouse offered "absolute certainty" about Nukes and WMD that was directly contradicted by intelligence reports in their hands. In Vietnam we were willing to burn villages, carpet bomb and defoliate not only the North but South Vietman also, the folks we were "protecting." Hunderds, even thousands, still die every year in SE Asia from unexploded ordinance and the effects of Agent Orange. Even if we had gone that extra step and finished off Hanoi, we would have ruled a country in turmoil and revolt as long as we stayed. I Iraq we are beset by an overwhelmingly domestic resistance that we can never "kill off." We are stuck in a situation where we have no idea who is the enemy and who is friendly. Who can we surge after and as has been the case so far, when we attack cvilians we only make more enemies. Bring in more troops, even much more as Mr. Francona implies, will only bring more death and recruit more terrorists. To say Rep. Murtha is suggesting too many limits on our troops is false, the last four years have seen that limitation as applied by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Now we are just trying to get out and leave the least-worst result of this "illegal and immoral" (Pope John Paul) war.
Murtha has not forgotten the lessons of Vietnam, he seems to be one of the few to have learned them. Most of the rhetoric coming from the administration and the pentagon seems to be recycled from the 60's...support the troops...fight them there so we don't have to fight them here...when they stand up, we'll stand down...spread democracy...wrong message to the enemy...chaos in the region. Yes, Murtha remembers and is striving to prevent another Vietnam...not create one. Murtha is the one with the guts.
You've missed the whole point! America wants this war to end. Period. The Administration goes against the will of the people. Congress has only the power of the purse to enforce the people's will, and unfortunately Mr Murtha has been forced to use it. Vietnam was wrong, start to finish. So is this war. Please, get on the right side of this war. Please use your influence to suport our troops, by bringing them home. There will always be good political reasons to keep on killing. You can advocate death, but you should not. Stop the killing.
Any comment I make may be considered an attack on all of the comments of others! Somewhere along the line all parties seem to forget that it is our sons and daughters that are dying day after day. I doubt if any member of the armed forces that is in Iraq and in Harm's Way today stops to consider if he (or she) is a Democrat or Republican, or stop to think about the similarities between Vietnam and Iraq! Their blood is being spilled on a daily basis and it would seem that there is no end in sight! I have one grandson that is now being deployed to Iraq for the fourth time, and another grandson being deployed for the second time! Neither one honestly understands the politics of war, but both are resigned to the prospect that because of the Politicians in Washington and the lack of positive leadership, their chances of being alive a year from now are being greatly diminished.
Hey Palm Desert... How many more Americans must die in "our own land" because the Non-believers also dont believe we'll be attacked again?? Losing military #'s over there and the civilians of another country, unfortunately being a part of any war... is much better than the memories I remember daily about 9-11 in America. Yes it is sad that innocent children and civilians die in war, but if you recall...Our present President was only in office a very short time and did nothing in that short time to stir this up, It was thrown in his lap on 9-11 because of the lack of previous presdencies concern or indecisiveness. I personally, dont ever in my life want to see America attacked again as we saw that fateful day...and if we dont take care of terrorism on their front, it most definately will return to haunt us here in our lands. what would be your response then? blame it on Bush...because Murtha and other blind big mouths prevented him from completeing the task? wake up now or give up your right to free speach later...It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the whole picture and the very real future of not continueing what was started by terrorism against the U.S. on 9-11.
Why is it the Democrats and liberal whiners can only talk about redeployment (surrender)? We are fulfilling Osamas Paper Tiger expectation, thanks to our fearless democrat leaders (Ha). From someone that has been there and will probably go back this disgusts me. People like Murtha are giving hope to the enemy. I want us to leave Iraq like the rest of the country. I just don't want us to leave it and the people I HELPED in defeat. So all of you sitting in your little cubicle who have no idea what it is actually like over there have fun. I am so proud to serve this country so you can have the right to be stupid. Just remember there are a lot of American soldiers over there that will be killed due to stupid political games. Once again people like Murtha have painted a target on our backs. They are traitors in many (big majority) service members eyes.
Murtha can spell Vietnam. And you have proven you can spell it as well. Where you and Murtha part ways is that he REMEMBERS Vietnam... and you obviously do not.
We already won the war, we just need to win the peace. Let's decide as a nation, if we are going to fight to win....or fight for mediocrity. The plan is simple, win Bagdad, win the peace.
Oh, so we won in Vietnam? I didnt know that. Glad for the information.
Never make decisions about something of which you know little---or nothing.
I am very much in support of Murtha. Do not understand the poor analagy Francona makes with Murtha's request for proper training and equipment (what veteran could possibly not think this is a good idea) to interference with rules of engagement in Vietnam. What does one have to do with the other??? THis is a giant leap in logic. And I am a Vietnam Vet.
Does Francona truly believe that the commander in chief has, and is currently, "effectively" prosecuting this war? By this article he must. What does he propose be done under the circumstance that the commander in chief does NOT? Is it "supporting the troops" to allow such to continue? Or does he believe it better to allow our best young people to die as a result of such poor execution?
Francona is just another neocon "creating" his own reality. What need to be said is that winning the war in Iraq is not the Marines mission. Its the presidents mission (he's another shitbird as a marine above called Murtha)! Its not the valient marines fault if the presidents mission is flawed. They have done as good a job as could be expected under the impossible circumstances. I call the presidents mission as a massive blunder, and the soldiers and Iraqi citizens the victims.
Murtha is an idiot and needs to be removed or impeached from office for mental incompetence.
It's amazing that as a veteran yourself, you're against Murtha's plan to ensure that ALL troops are properly equipped, trained and rested. We need more people in Congress like Murtha to step up and make sure our troops have everything they need, since the Administration decided they don't want to provide the necessities. Please, no more spin simply because he's a Democrat. I need LESS GOP talking points in my news - thank you.
Franona has forgotten the lesson of Vietnam. which is never go to war unless it really is a matter of our defending our nation or out close allies. Trying to play geopolitical games with other peoples countries, as in Vietnam and Iraq, is always a bad idea because people will only stomach so much war and the locals will hate you. You can say something vacuous like that everyone believed they had WMD's, but the vice president and president knew they were basiclly making that up, and it was the veep on TV that got everyone else believing it.
I think LCol Francona misses the point, which is, by reducing the money, Bush will be faced with the decision to keep the unfunded troops in Iraq or to remove them. If, as he describes in his post, the President decides to keep the soldiers there anyway, how is that Murtha's fault? The point is to make Dubya get out, not to create a new Vietnam. The Adminstration has already done that! If the President still can't get the message to withdraw the troops that Congress and the American people are trying to send him, it's his own fault!
Specialist Jack, Do you really mean shoot the pig dead? Do you REALLY MEAN THAT? We must all be extra careful now about making those kind of statements. They are not useful and downright dangerous. You should probably retract that statement and apologize for that emotional rant or someone might take you seriously. Shame on you. Attacking a military man who served his country- double shame.
Murtha is a Marxist and traitor to this country and those that agree with him are either the same or are brainwashed by the subversive rhetoric of the mainstream media. He should be tried and convicted as a traitor. Wake up America!!!!
History repeats itself if we don't learn from our past mistakes. I guess our politicos in DC, most of them missed that lesson in high school. We all need to stop belittling others for our differing viewpoints and find a way to get our troops our of the middle of a civil war. We started this war on lies and now it has come back to haunt us. There is no easy solution, but to stay there until we win, how long would that be. My fathers old army unit is still in Korea, over 50 years now. This war is also costing this country, billions and soon trillions. This takes away from important services that our government would have provided, adding to our national debt and to the future of our country, the debt to our children, grandchildren and greatgranchildren. Our leaders need to come together and LISTEN. Get together and work out what needs to be done. All of the military leaders that opposed this surge are gone and the ones the president could find to support it are in now. Those leaders that left knew what was really going on the ground, where the action is taking place and not the resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue who lives in a mansion. Its funny that some say things about Murthas military background, but what about Cheney and Bush and their military background, not much there for Bush and non existant for Cheney. Stop picking apart those who are trying to come up with things that will help our troops, like training, proper armor and rest too. Its just crazy that you can't see that Murtha is trying to help our troops and is not soft on defense or the military. The powers that be chose to make a vietnam veteran in Georgia, former senator now, the one that lost limbs in his service for this nation as weak and soft on military, a coward or something to that nature, that was wrong. In closing, the bible says you reap what you sew, well when the recount was going on in Florida in 2000. The GOP and their people sent goons and thugs to stop the legal process, with threats, intimidation and even violence, well that garbage has not come to roost, but its all of us that pays for those few arrongant men. The military knows we support them, but what they fight for is our freedom to discuss this both sides. They go and do this so we have our freedoms.
We had no business going there in the first place. The whole world knew it, half of Americans knew it, and everyone inside the Beltway knew it. This was and continues to be a George W Bush vendetta. It is his own little personal war gone awry. And to take advantage of our honorable military forces under false pretenses is the most dishonorable thing he could have done. He is the biggest liar I know. He will go down in history as a criminal. He has dishonored his countrymen, and shamed his family's name. I want an end to our involvement in Iraq NOW. I want my honorable son in the honorable Army back from Iraq NOW. This country should not deploy military forces into battle just because some maniac in the White House has a personal score to settle. I served for 20 years myself, and love the military. But it should be used for honest reasons and as a last resort.
Murtha is getting senile in his old, very old age and he is not able to make the right decisions because he lacks common sense. How about giving support to our troops and lets stop bickering about who is running this country, we have a president that the American people elected and it was not Murtha. Let our great nation follow the lead of our great and elected President, The Great George Bush.
semper fi, mr murtha from a fellow Marine/desert storm vet. this is BUSH'S VIETNAM lets but the blame where it deserves to go, his bum vp cheney too
the author here completely missed the point. This war is OVER, it was over a year ago. what Murtha and others like him are proposing is figuring out a way to get out as fast a we can, not micromanaging a war or trying to "win" it, whatever "winning" means at this point. Iraq is not Vietnam, it never was.
"Treasonism?!" I guess John Kerry's joke didn't miss the mark by too much, huh? Look, I find it all too interesting that now - AFTER the military dug itself into a pit of failure, the correlations are drawn with Vietnam - after Congress gets tired of funding a failed policy, started as the result of doctored, false intelligence ... Congress shouldn't place restrictions on spending - they should simply cut it off and tell the president he has no choice but to bring them home or strand US soldiers in the desert ... alas, they don't have the guts to do that ...
Bottom line....An overwhelming majority of Americans (that's the constituency, sir) want this conflict to end. Period, end of statement. We are not a monarchy. It's refreshing to see our Congress at work. Its going to take solid, stand-up Americans like Mr. Murtha, Mr. Baker, and President Carter to get our country back to its preeminent moral standing. Rightly so. Note that although President Carter was almost immediately blitzkreiged by the neocons after publishing his Palestine book, he defended his writing with unflinching logic and reason. Truth never fears the light of day. Our Congress too, needs to be reassured that Americans are behind them when they do what's right for America and Americans.
Francona is happy on a bombing spree. Clearly not a very well read man. The military is reducing their recruitment standards which means more Francona's fighting and executing wars.
There have already been restrictions on who our troops can engage (by the administration itself) so this piece of writing is for the most part - junk.
I think that Mr Murtha CAN spell V-I-E-T-N-A-M quite easily which is why he is doing things as he is. I take it Mr Francona, that you would much prefer the troops be sent into a war zone WITHOUT proper equipment and training? How ever did you live through your time in country?
Gee, it seeems the mission has changed several times since the start of this mess. Don't forget that authorization was granted because Saddam had WMD's and was going to start giving it to Al Queda. Whoops! none of that was ever going to happen, so quick we have to dream up another reason. I've got it! We need to spread peace and freedom throughout the middle east!! Give me a break people, that is never going to happen. And you can't keep changing the parameters to suit your bloodlust and greed. I congratulate John Murtha for trying to get a hold of this thing before it is any more out of control. The soldiers in our armed forces deserve to be FULLY TRAINED, FULLY ARMED AND ARMORED and GIVEN A CLEAR MISSION. We are not there to babysit Sunnis, Shia and Kurds. Let them fight eachother for control of their own country. Since the original mission was bull crap, we should already have left once it was determined there were no WMD. REPUBLICANS NEED TO STOP KILLING AMERICANS. STOP BEING ON THE SIDE OF THE TERRORISTS! How do you like it?
Hello, Yes I remember Vietnam. I remember all the comments about the "Domoino theory" I remember the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. I remember all the "advisory" people that were sent in to "help" the South Vietnamise defend themselves. I remember when American combat troops were sent in to fight for the South Vietnamise.. When are we all going to realize that this is NOT our war, it is a Civil war between 2 different religous, & I use that term VERY loosly, who want to impose their beliefs on others. Our REAL battle ground is here in the USA where some of us go hungry every day, do not have decent medical care, do not get a chance to become beter educated, all because our government chooses to be the Policeman of the World. Now I'm not talking isolationism, but rather seeing what is going on in our cities, towns & yes, in our own neighborhoods, & doing MORE to make them a better place for all BEFORE we decide to do that for others. We can only hope that those in power: A) Truly know what they are doing B) Have the countries BEST interest at heart. C) Have the conviction to make the tough choices. D) Be honest with the public. So to our leaders I, finally, say: Please win the war, you have had ENOUGH time, monies, manpower to do so. DO NOT come crying to us when WE decide that WE see the situation going downhill fast. What will the Iraq of the next 40 years look like ? Now one can tell, but looking at the Vietnam of today may give us a clue. We ARE ALL in this TOGETHER so let US ALL ACT TOGETHER. PEACE to you & yours
Why is it every single person I read that supports this failed experiment of pre-emptive war (and at this point is there even a cogent reason to do so?) can't help but label any dissent as treason? Have none of war supporters read history? Have none of them read the quotes of Benjamin Franlkin, Theodore Roosevelt, John Kennedy, etc.. that implore American's citizens to question the actions of her Government, lest bad policy repeat itself? If all one can do is call a dissenter treasonous, that person brings nothing to the discussion, and should save their wrists from carpal-tunnel syndrome. I do support everyone's freedom to express themselves, but am obliged to helpfully point out when one makes a fool of one's self.
This is a very simple issue that has been smeared by the out-of-touch neocons like this guy, whoever he is. All that Murtha's bill says is that troops must be 1) trained to basic standards (as opposed to the Pentagon's strategy of consistently lowering standards and sending in kids with 2 weeks of basic training), 2) equipped with proper body armor (as opposed to Bush's strategy of shoving kids out of planes without a parachute) and 3) take enough time between tours of duty to rest (as opposed to sending these brave citizens away for an indentured servitude with the abolition of 'stop loss'). So, if you are against having our troops trained, equipped, and rested, then by all means believe what this guy is spouting above.
yes keep the war going and the freeloaders at home and all retired money milking the goverment and gusee we cannot take care of our needs now to many been milking the goverment for years . the future ofour military will not come from the past were in trouble enjoy your milking generals..
Your point about "stop loss" is wrong - the issue is that the CONTRACT entered into at the time between the GOVERNMENT and the INDIVIDUAL should NOT be arbitrarily extended at the WHIM OF THE GOVERNMENT. Just as with any other CONTRACT, when it ENDS it ENDS (stop loss is just a form of involuntary servitude) The US should have NEVER BEEN IN IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE. King 'Dub-derhead only has 22 months left in his REIGN
The fact about the "loss" of Vietnam that commentators seem to continually overlook is that it happened after the departure of a highly discredited Nixon Administration that, through its disservice and abuse of power, left the country in no mood whatsoever to publicly support a military challenge against North Vietnam when control by that country was taken of Saigon just a little more than 2 years after the Paris Peace agreement was signed. It's very reasonable to believe that if the trauma of Watergate never happened with its aftermath of a weakened Ford Presidency and a dispirited, tired public; a conquest by North Vietnam of its southern neighbor never would have occurred - at least not as soon as 1975. Certainly not if an unweakened Richard Nixon, who would have still been president at that time was demonstrating as much readiness to use the same level of military force in 1975 as he used against North Vietnam in the weeks preceding 1973 peace agreement. While Vietnam leaves us with many lessons about a lot things (including the dangers of war's micromanagement by politicians) it also teaches about the dangers of trying to maintain public support for wars waged by leaders with diminishing credibility. There are plenty of historic parallels demonstrating how this is something that seriously undermines a government's successful prosecution of war. That's one of the essential reasons for failure in Vietnam. It's a major reason we're experiencing not only the trauma of Iraq, but the inevitable internal political divisions and polarization that come when lengthy, bloody military actions with ambiguous objectives are taken for reasons that, over the long haul, don't stand up well to public scrutiny.
The time has come to expose the true un-Americans, the ones who don't support the troops and those who choose to shred the constitution, rather than support and defend it. The current administration is throwing away lives to support their failed policies and to cover their tracks. They reduce support for those injured and need longterm care but call us treasonous for wanting to end the bloodshed. They haul out tired fear-based tactics such as the "fight 'em there so we don't have to fight them there" and raising terror alerts whenever they need to misdirect the public. They say putting more troops in harm's way is the best way to honor the dead by continuing the fight - the same insanity that led to 50K+ killed in Vietnam. Right is wrong and down is up with this administration. Tony Snow and LCOL Francona are hacks & parrots. We've allowed draft dodging neocon weasels to throw away all our built up international good will, take a surplus and turn it into a massive deficit while calling the constitution just "a piece of paper". Hauling out the current administration in leg-irons would be an appropriate end to their reign of terror.
Ironically, these Neocons who blast Murtha for his military background also support a President who skirted his own military duty, but since then, has led us headstrong into a QUAGMIRE, a civil war, a dead end of the worst kind. After years of observing this neocon behavior to repeat whatever it is that they hear from Fox News or Rove and Cheney's White House, I remain completely mystified as to why they simply just go along with it all. Perhaps these are the individuals receiving the biggest tax cuts, benefitting from illegal alien labor, or enjoying the ripe corporate contracts from Iraq, because if these disciples of our war criminal president are actually religious zealots, then I have to wonder just how their God or Jehovah, or whatever it is that they like to call this being would react to such indifference when it comes to the death of hundreds of thousdands of people.
"not" stupid obviously has no clue about stop loss, I suggest you actually read a military enlistment contract before you rant about government whims.
Murtha is protecting our troops. He is making sure they aren't sent in unprepared. Also, he is making sure they can't be sent back without proper rest. Next, he making sure they can't have their contracts extented by extra time. Example, you sign up for 6 years. You do all 6 years and they force you to reenlist for another 6 years. These things are good for stopping the post tramic stress of war. He is protecting the troops from our government.


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