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Rep. Murtha, can you spell V-i-e-t-n-a-m?

Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:45 AM by Hardball

According to recent remarks by Rep. John Murtha, he intends to cripple President Bush’s “surge” plan in Iraq by placing numerous restrictions on how money can be spent, stating, “They won’t be able to do the deployment. They won’t have equipment, they don’t have the training and they won’t be able to do the work. There’s no question in my mind. We have analyzed this and there’s no way this can be done.”

Perhaps the colonel –Murtha is a retired U.S. Marine Corps reservist – has forgotten the lessons we Vietnam veterans learned the hard way.  You cannot prosecute a war effectively with interference from Washington.  What he proposes, labeled the “slow bleed” by Murtha’s opponents, is exactly the type of interference and micromanagement we faced 40 years ago in Southeast Asia.

During that conflict, there were so many conditional rules of engagement and outright restrictions on the use of military power that our forces were not only fighting the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces, but the bureaucracy inside the Beltway as well.  For example, for years we were not permitted to bomb North Vietnamese targets north of 20 degrees north latitude – even when the North Vietnamese Air Force built an airfield just north of the line. 

When President Nixon finally unleashed American airpower in December 1972 (Operation Linebacker II), Air Force, Navy and Marine aircrews brought North Vietnam to its knees in a matter of days, only to be called off before delivering the final blow.  Contrast that to the Gulf War.  President Bush gave the Pentagon the mission – defend Saudi Arabia and liberate Kuwait – and let them execute it. 

Mr. Murtha wants to restrict how specific monies can be spent, how troops are trained prior to deployment, how the services determine rotation policies and manage their retention programs, etc.  He wants to require that the Defense Department allow combat veterans to have at least one year stateside before returning to the combat zone.  An admirable goal, but these are decisions best left to those prosecuting the war.  Marines normally deploy for seven months – are they expected to also wait one year before redeployment?  Where does this end?  Will the Pentagon have to clear each troop movement with Congress?

The congressman also wants to prevent the services, particularly the Army and Marine Corps, from using the Stop Loss program, a program that allows the services to retain members on active duty to the full extent of their enlistment contract (the contact includes a reserve portion).  In other words, he wants the military to stop using a legal, authorized force management tool.

In a surprising statement, Mr. Murtha called for the closure of the detention facility at Guantanamo (not sure what that has to do with Iraq) and the bulldozing of the Iraqi prison at Abu Ghraib.  Can we assume he will allocate funds to build a new terrorist prison in his congressional district?  As for Abu Ghraib, shouldn’t we allow the Iraqis to decide what to do with their facilities?

All of this boils down to congressional (political) micromanagement of the Defense Department’s conduct of a war – all the things he no doubt complained about (or should have) when he was a Marine Corps officer.

Congratulations, Colonel – you propose to do to the troops in Iraq what the Johnson and Nixon administrations did to us in Vietnam.  I hope it doesn’t turn out the same way.


 

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The point is, we, as Americans, voted the elected people to office. The people we elected are the ones doing the job we elected them to do. Therefore, as Americans, and as a Vietnam Vet., we must support our elected officials in what ever decisions they make, even if it is with our life, because we are Americans. If you are an American, support our country or get out.
For those too young to remember him, Vo Nguyen Giap was the North Vietnamese minister of defense. The Tet offensive in which the Viet Cong were virtually wiped out, along with a fair number of North Vietnamese regulars, was his idea. In his words, he believed there would be apopular uprising in supprt of the offensive. Still according to him, North Vietnam was ready to surrender after the failure of Tet. But then they noticed the reaction to Tet in the American press, among American lawmakers, and with the American public. The North Vietnamese, he says, realized that if they could hang in there they would win ultimately because of the negativity being directed against the war, primarily through the press. So we lost a war in which we won every battle. Jack Murtha and many members of Congress are acting as if they're trying to effect the same result again.
...and when this tactic (the surge) doesn't end this war, you can blame it on the dems & lefties which is all this administration wants to do... find scapegoats to which to shift the blame for this distrastrous, foolish, insane war. A very modern definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The Iraq situation is a perfect example. Someone has to stop the insanity.
Freakin hilarious. Does this guy really believe we could've "won" the Vietnam war if we just could have avoided all that micro-managing? Yeah, if we'd only have been able to kill a few million more of those Vietnamese then communism wouldn't have then spread across the whole of Southeast Asia country by country... Oh... nevermind...
I think it's safe to say that most of these comments ridiculing LTCOL Francona's comments never served and if they have, they are now clueless and blinded by the liberal message.Mistakes made?Yes.Not unlike mistakes made in other wars or conflicts.The bottom line is WE all volunteered to serve and unless you are ordered to not follow LOAC,your mission is to see it through,Period.We have seen a democratic president in action with Somalia.Talk about gutless
Seems to me we should leave the war and the fighting to those that know best. What makes Murtha the great military know it all? He is way past his time. Leave this war to the bright minds that our military has and it will be over soon. "Get the heck out of the kitchen and let the cook do the job." And another thing, stop the restrictions on where we fight and when we fight. Why can't you so called know it alls keep out of fights you have no knowledge of and no desire to participate in. Stay the heck out!! God Bless our military.
I am a retired soldier. I was on border duty in Germany when the wall came down. I realized then that containment works. This was an ill advised war created by people in government that have no idea how or why to prosecute one. Bush and Chaney lashed out like a wounded beast and got OUR nation, of which we are ALL part of, into another Vietnam. Neither of them nor their neocon allies have the balls to admit much less correct the errors that they personally have commited. Jack Murtha is the real deal! He has the foresight to see what is coming because he walked the walk before he talked the talk. He has the balls neccessary to end this quagmire. I AM a Jack Murtha Democrat and I worked to get him reeelected!
Personally, I was against the war because I figured that Saddam killed more Muslim's than Jews or Christians. I always figured he would make a better ally than enemy but considering he paid 25k per suicide bomber killing Jews in Israel how much would he have spent paying suicide bombers attacking the US or US interests. I am no peacenick I am a vet and pro military but it pisses me off to see soldiers tried for murder. The Democrats have 1 goal in general and that is to make the US into a 3rd world @#$%^&**. Waxman was contacted by the insurgents killing US Marines in Falluja (sp) and help funnel 250K + in first aid through his connection to the people killing US Marines (to me that is treason). Personally if we get nuked in a major US cesspool we can send liberals in to clean it up - with no protective gear and no potassium iodide so we don't have to deal with them voting in the next election. The question is we all took the oath we do we get to kill our "foreign enemies and domestic".... and I hear the AW Ban is getting reintroduced I wonder why? It's not for my safety.
Not included in my previous comment was the difference between Vietnam and our current situation in Iraq. The civil war in Vietnam was not created by us. The civil war in Iraq can be attributed to the United States involvement by extremists in the middle east. The Iranian government is already spreading lies to its civilians and to others that the united states is trying to encourage this sectarian violence. If we DONT clean up our mistake, there are going to be alot more people over there who hate us. I believe that our troops deserve all the money and training needed to clean up a mistake before it becomes much much worse.
I agree with Franco.....I am so sick and tired of the people who bitch, moan and complain about this war and about sending over more troops and doing whatever is necessary to win. Do any of you remember that not too long ago the Democrats wanted us to send over more troops, time and time again, and were calling for Donald Rumsfeld's dismissal,etc.? Then when Rumsfeld resigned, and the now the President wants to do what the Democrats have been asking for all along, all of a sudden the Democrats now want to bitch, moan and complain about doing exactly what they wanted to begin with...How quickly the people forget!!! We MUST win this war!!!We have been attacked over and over and over (too many times to count) by terrorists and the only way to stop it from happening again is to stamp out as many of them as possible. In the war in Iraq, we need to "bomb the living sh-t" out of EVERYONE (like we did in Japan....or has everyone forgotten just how effective that was)? We haven't been attacked by them since..... If we eliminate the terrorists we face today, we will deter them in the future. We need to show the world that no one can mess with America..we won't stand for it. We are just asking for attacks every day that we continue fighting with each other about how to win the war in Iraq...they see us battling each other and realize just how weak a country we are when we are not willing to stand up and fight to WIN!!!!! They know they can attack us many times over again and we will DO NOTHING!!!!! We must teach the rest of the world (those countries who do not know it already) that we will not stand idly by and wait until we are attacked again and then when we are, we will not sit around and debate and talk for years about what to do about it. For those who are to "weak-kneed" to bomb another country as many times as necessary, how did you feel when they bombed us on 9/11? How about the World Trade Center? How about all the other attacks that killed our people? Are you sitting back waiting for the next one only to say "Oh no, it happened again", or something like that? These terorists do not recognize anything we are doing or saying to discourage them....the only thing that will MEAN anything to them is for us to show them just how serious we are and that they don't ever want to mess with us again!!!!!!!
Ok so We keep the troops in Iraq. We go along with cutting the funds for them to complete the mission, and the President deploys the troops needed. And when all the money is spent We tell the troops they have to stay as there, as there is no money to bring them home either. We need to reunite this country n quit this endless woa is Me crapp. Complete the mission/ support the troopps with all means needed.Dont let 1 do the job that needs to be done by 2. Remember the outcry over the killing fields when We pulled out of SE Asia? More people are killed in this great country to Murder, drunk drivers. etc..... grabb Your kahunas n act like u have a pair.
The war in Iraq was a strategically bad move from the get go. Aside from the obvious sectarian pitfalls, which many warned of before the war, we as a country are not safer today than before the war in Iraq. The world has been made more dangerous by this action. Bin Laden wanted to draw the U.S. into an intractable war in Afghanistan, as his group had done with the former Soviet Union. The Bush administration played right into his hands by attacking Iraq. Better to have continued to control Afghanistan and go after the terrorist’s networks than to have given Bin Laden such a recruitment and training tool as Iraq. The question that needs to be asked is: Why did we go into Iraq if we knew that failure would be “a catastrophe” for generations to come? The possibility for failure was always there. We have had a lack of wisdom of leadership and the world is a much more dangerous place than it need be.
Several good points have been expressed but te single sole solution this bungled mess of Bush's should have been and still is "overwhelming force"!I want our troops home! Vietnam was a horrendous mistake for us to ever have been involved in. Now that our learned leaders can't see beyond their noses, that there is and can be no political settlement until the violence is quelled and absolute law is acheieved. So the only answer is 500K PLUS troops. Take total control of the waring factions and the country, install marshall law and THEN, negotiate a settlement to this mind boggling mess our "leaders" have created. Lastly. It is simply sickening to hear Bush supporters talk like we the American people should support this assinine approach in Iraq. Are they so politicaaly attached to the moron in the Whitehouse they cannot deal with this realisticly and logically? Our country is going to hell and our leaders bicker about Iraq like it was some gemstone.And on top that the chief moron in charge wants to start another war and asks us to beleieve him? How pathetic is all of this? Lets do what we have to do and get out the God forsaken hell hole of the Middle East!
Rep Murtha issued the appropriate response to the "NEOCON" Parinoid view of the world. Is choking off funds the message we want to send to our young men and women in Uniform. I do not think so. ! It is too late to point the finger and hyperventilate about "Who shot Jane". The Answer does not lay within Washington's lobbyist infested Senate and Congress. We as a nation need to find the best of all minds to present a product that is workable to all. For far too long we have relied on the Good old boy network. It is a shame that many of them have lost touch with reality. They dream of days long ago. Lets be real, practical, companionate, and most of all American. We cannot nor should not impose our Ideological and religious fundamentals upon those who do not seek or want. Soon there will be a return to the cold war of the 80’s. Are we ready, I suspect we are not? SFC Michael Brown U.S. ARMY RETIRED.
It's interesting how the right is now trying to blame the failure in Iraq on those who have had enough. Mr. Murtha's actions are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of factors that have led to the mess in Iraq. Bush and his crew launched this useless war and screwed it up. Now they are trying to say..."if only the left would stop interfering we would win". trying to re-write the history books won't pull the wool over people's eyes
TODD ............ Thank you for putting it so simply. My son is in Afghanistan, and for all of you men and women out there, I pray for and think of YOU - not the idiots we have surrounding us!! God Bless you and all you believe in. Go get um Tiger!!!
I am so sick of being called a NEOCON or a "Lap Dog" for the adminisration simply because I agree with many of there policies. This war in Iraq has not been fought properly, that is a fact. It was fought so we don't upset people like Mr tepper and others in this Blog. War is ugly and when fought to win it ends relatively fast. We should have beat the enemy into submission. This new plan seems to have that idea in mind. Whether Sunni or Shiite we need to make this so painful on them that they quit. Right now the reverse is happening because of people like Murtha. Colonel, you are right on the money.
No matter how you spin it Ricky, our current emperor has no clothes.
It's interesting how the right is now trying to blame the failure in Iraq on those who have had enough. Mr. Murtha's actions are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of factors that have led to the mess in Iraq. Bush and his crew launched this useless war and screwed it up. Now they are trying to say..."if only the left would stop interfering we would win". trying to re-write the history books won't pull the wool over people's eyes
The U.S. Constituion places the authority over the military in the hands of the Executive Branch. The House of Representatives have already given the President the authority to wage this war and he is doing so. The House of Representative has no constitutional role in advising the Executive Branch one authority has been given. The only option the House of Representatives has is to cease funding the war entirely since actually surrendering is not part of their constitutional role either. However, cutting all funding is surrendering under another name and the Democrats are too cowardly to take the political heat of that act. A non-binding resolution of their disagreement is testimony to their cowardice.
I've lost a tremendous amount of respect for the military because of military men like Francona you see on TV or print. We cannot trust a military man to decide when to continue or to end war.
About stop-loss: Everyone who signs a contract into the military signs an EIGHT year contract. The contract will stipulate how much time on active duty your initial tour will be, whether that be 3,4, or 5 years. After that, the remaining portion must be served in either the Guard, Reserve, or IRR. To say that stop-loss is illegal and soldiers can't be arbitrarily extended is wrong. Soldiers can be ordered to stay on active duty for their commitment if those appointed above them say so. Simple enough. It's happened to me.
Cut off money in the middle. Only the politicians can think of something so absurd. If a group of surgeons starts an operation and halfway through the hospital admin desides that this type of sugery is not in their best interests do they shut off power to the operating room and take away meds and instruments and let the patient die? NO! No matter now that the reason for going was bad. The fact that our troops are there and that area is waiting to destroy itself the moment we walk away, means we can't just shut off the money. Get a strategy to withdraw and get Iraq bad on its feet but to cut and run like democrats want is insane. Lets see how many die in masses then. Not to mention the ENTIRE goal of terrorism is to effect change by terror. So allowing roadside bombs to drive out the US military would be the equivalent of allowing them (terrorists) to win WWIII. It would generate 100 more 9/11's. Was the reason for war mis-represented, yes. Should we just quit and run in the middle, no.
Your comments seem to discredit Mr. Murtha's service in Vietnam, or didn't you know he served and was awarded a Bronze Star with V and two Purple Hearts. Why draw attention to Mr. Murtha being a Marine Reservists, or don't you think reservist provide credible service. Not a fan of Mr. Murtha's but as a veteran/retiree I find the basis of your commentary disingenous at best. To be balanced why didn't you mention Washington'S inteference with Marine Corps commanders during the first battle of Fallujah.
Implicit in your argument is the belief that somehow the US could have won the Vietnam war, if only Congress had not intervened and cut off funds. That is a lie. The Vietnamese were fighting a war of national liberation, first against the French, then the Japanese, then the French again, then the Americans. The Vietnamese lost 3M dead, and would have been prepared to continue the fight even if another 3M were killed. The only way the Americans would have won is if they gassed, nuked and then plowed the whole country. With 90% of the Iraqi population wanting the Americans to leave, I would submit that the only way for America to win in Iraq is to gas,kill and bury ALL 25M Iraqis. That is the only American chance of victory. And if you don't like Iran, then gas, kill and bury ALL 70M Iranians, because they are not going to buy American democracy if it is brought to them at the end of a gun. Lt. Col. Francone, if you really love the US, then you should be demanding that all American troops be sent to Afghanistan and Pakistan to hunt down and exterminate al-Qaeda. Those are the people who really hit America on 9/11. Iraq and Iran are just useless distractions. What are you going to say when al-Qaeda hits the US with WMDs? And stop letting Elliott Abrams tell you what to think...
Oh and Matt from a few posts up: No soldier or Marine goes to war with 2 weeks of basic training. Marine Corps is 13 weeks plus infantry training. Army is 9 or 10 plus your Advanced training, which is anywhere from 5 weeks to a year long. Don't spout off stuff you don't know about.
Dear J.D. Troutdale,Oregon: Speaking as someone who lost friends on 9/11/01, let me please express my appreciation of your determination to remember those who died. Now please, stop using my dead friends as an excuse to call for the killing of other people. Do you remember 9/11? Well, that's great. But what you're remembering is your sudden feeling of vulnerability, your own fear. Fear is the terrorist's weapon. Fear is the tool of those who would destroy our freedoms, and use our own strength against us by provoking us into actions that isolate our nation from our allies, that weaken our military by putting them in the middle of long-term hostilities, and that turn us on one another in our suspicion and our desire to be safe. Safety is an illusion. You could be hit by a car tomorrow. You could be murdered by a burglar in your own home. Live your life, and do not give in to fear. that is our true strength.
You are so wrong and so right. Yes, there are parallels with the Vietnam experience. Like Vietnam, we went into Iraq without any clear understanding of why we were going there. Someone thought that we could defeat the Russians by bombing Hanoi. Today it seems so absurd. Now,President Bush thinks we can end terrorism by going to Baghdad. History will also label that as absurd. We never "brought the Vienamese to their knees". If we had stayed one hundred years that would not have happened. Read Robert McNamara's autobiography and you will see that the whole thing was a fool's errand with no possibility of a worthwhile outcome. Likewise, the Iraq war. What should have been done is what was originally planned. Protect Saudi Arabia and liberate Kuwait. Not go to Iraq. Unfortuneately , we have a president that can not understand the difference between Saudi Arabia and Iraq. And, equally sad is that he still has not discovered how bad the advice is that he has been given by the "old cold warriors".
Honestly - I love this liberal clap-trap about the "public" not supporting the war - when was the last time a Democratic administration listened to the "public" when the administration decided it was time for Americans to die? Serbia/Kosovo? Vietnam? Irrespective of how you feel about the government, we elect these people (and hope they appoint qualified others - most of whom must be vetted and approved by Congress thru hearings anyway) to steward the country in all aspects of their jobs. How can this Congress approve the new Gemeral returning to Iraq, then disapprove of his plan for additional troops- what did they "approve" of then?? His haircut? His smile?? Did they not have ample opportunity both before and during the hearing to quiz him of his plan and requirements?? It is the height of silliness, and unfortunately the Democrats are letting politics get in the way of a unified approach to the conflict. If the Administration flip/flopped as leading Democrats have on this subject (are you listening Ms. Clinton, Mr. Biden et. al.) all of whom were screaming for Mr. Rumsfled's head when he didn't want more troops - I think Gen Shinsheki (sic) got more publicity for his view on the pre-war requirements of the requirement of additional troops, and the idiotic "Powell Doctrine" as well last October than American Idol - we would all be hiding in our basements and afraid to go to shopping malls. The only way to defeat these terrorists (and that's what they are) is much the same way Israel did when it (formerly) uccessfully held off enemies from all sides in making a successful democracy in the Middle East - clobber them beyond recognition, leaving no doubt as to the victor
I think what he is saying is we don't need 535 incompetent and conflicted and politically motivated "generals" in Washington trying to run a war that can easily be won by our generals and soldiers in the field if we would just give them an objective, and a goal, and tell them to get it done, and provide them what they ask for. It is THAT SIMPLE. This is EXACTLY why the constitution names the president commander in chief and limits the role of congress in both making treaties and in fighting war.
Francona can't accept the plain fact that there are problems that can't be solved through superior firepower. It's irrelevant that the Iraqi insurgents, like the Vietnamese before them, can't defeat the US Army and the Marine Corps in a conventional battle on open terrain. Why would they fall for that? Iraq is their country; they have nowhere else to go, and they'll fight occupying forces for decades if they have to. Americans who cling to the idea that our defeat in Vietnam was the fault of weak-willed politicians and traitorous journalists are the victims of magical thinking. The world's too dangerous a place, and the foreign policy challenges are all too real, to replace analysis with fantasies about civilian betrayal. For the first time in my life, I agree with Pat Buchanan on something. He said recently that it's obvious that Iraq is a defeat, not for American arms, but for American policy. Any steps we take now will be nothing more than managing the consequences of our folly.
Draft Bush 2004 Voters! The media tells me that rural soldiers are dying disproportionaly in Iraq. Interesting, because rural voters supported Bush disproportionately in 2004.
But this isn't Vietnam!!!!!!!! This isn't even the same century! To play partsian games with one man's intention of thought is a very dangerous thing to do. I understand why you question his thinking? At least it's not considered treason. Rep. Murtha will ALWAYS have the troops welfare the first priority. The American thing to do is to debate the options given to us by the Democrat's and Republican's and see which, if any make any sense and if not do what it takes to make any idea acceptable.
For all of you still trying with all your might to connect Iraq to 9/11...once and for all, Iraq did not attack us, Iraqi citizens did not attack us. The people behind 9/11 are still out there (Anyone remember Bin Laden? how many were Saudi citizens?) The people that harbored the terrorists that were responsible for 9/11, the Taliban and Al Queda are making a come back in Afghanistan, and have safe haven in parts of Pakistan, our ally. And maybe, just maybe if the current administration's policies were making even a small amount of longer-term, measurable progress after four years in Iraq using the same old policies, more people would be behind the plan. Unfortunately the policies are not working, and this "new" surge policy is not new, surges have been tried before and have not made any measurable long-term progress. It has been enormous mistake after enormous mistake. I would be a fool not to question the administration, especially since my loved one's life is at stake in Baghdad.
OH lord another rightwing shill for the Chimply McFlightsuit way of thinking. Charge like a bull into a china shop and then attack the patriotism of those opposed to the charge. Especially those poor deluded fools who think the terrorists are going to jump into ships and airplanes and follow us here and we'll all be wearing burkas and bowing down to them....ahhhhhhhhhh. Lord but it must be sad to be that delusional. Vietnam was a war based upon lies and ideology and so is Iraq. There is NO victory in Iraq and never will be. The main reason is their religion dictates their lives and it is all they know. The very idea that we can force democracy at the point of a gun is as bad as the terrorists thinking they can force their ideology based upon terror. Never work. We cannot win there, that is no defeatist, but simply the truth and that is where the Neo Clowns have trouble...owning up to the truth. So they try to couch their words in lies, half truths and slime attacks. Why is it people like this athur and others still try and push the BS that Vietnam was "winnable" and that Iraq is just a few more bullets and deaths away from "victory"? Neo Clowns are perhaps the greatest threat to democracy and freedom this world has ever seen.
Mr. Troutdale from Oregon, keeps bringing up 911 as it relates to Iraq. Well, here's one thing I remember about 911, living in New York City and having associates and friends lost; we were attacked by 19 hijackers. 15 of them were from one country alone, Saudi Arabia. Not one was from Iraq, not one. But 15 of the 19 from one country alone and not one from the country we attacked. Doesn't it seem a little weird to you that we would attack a country that didn't attack us and was a stable country before we went in there and messed it up. We may not have liked Saddam, but one thing is for sure; When he was there, there was stability and Islamic fundamentalism under his rule was not tolerated. George Bush by going into Iraq was not fighting terrorism but a personal war all his own. He owes this country and it's citizens some honesty and respect but I doubt we'll get it from a president with the mind of a child. As far as Mr. Francona is concerned, you know what I'm talking about, you just can't admit it. We fu----ed up big, big, big, big time. And by the way, we are there so we might as well finish it and I support sending more troops because we are stuck there now. But any justification for W's war is impossible, immoral, dishonest and un-American
The artificial construct of British Imperialism called Iraq was destined for defacto or dejure tripartite division into Kurdish, Shiite, and Sunni states the moment the ugly glue of the Baathist dictatorship was removed. That accomplished, further destabilization of an already volatile region becomes inevitable, pulling Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and Turkey into the maelstorm. In short, the problem never was and never will be solvable with military force, and THAT is the correct parallel to our Vietnam experience. The ignorance and arrogance of this administration has done damage which will take decades to repair.
Soldier in Oklahoma, Are you sure you have the facts right? You should start asking the Navy REservists about the 2 weeks (yes as in 14 days) of ground combat training at Fort Jackson they received before going boots on the ground in the sandbox.
Murtha is proposing oversight of Bush's misguided, poorly planned war. In November of '06, the country spoke. The top voting issue was Iraq and the country repudiated the GOP rubber stamp of approval that reigned for 6 years. Murtha's proposing a new policy. It's a policy that reflects what he said on the campaign trail. It's a policy that reflects common sense. We've seen little common sense from the Bush (Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Cheney, Wolfowitz neocon warmonger) administration. The war is now older than our efforts in WWII. So Murtha's proposing efforts to start to draw down our presence in Iraq and attend to other global US interests. He's proposing that the soldiers be trained, equipped and rested for battle. He's not micromanaging anything. He's doing the people's work in the Congress. It's a proper role and it's what he was elected to do.
Another day, another neocon rewriting history. According to our esteemed author, Richard Nixon was on the verge of winning the Vietnam War before he was called off by the weak-kneed liberal appeasers. And John Murtha's plan (to only deply troops who are well-equipped and rested) is compared to LBJ's micromanagement of the war back in the 60s. Sir, the "micromanagement" you speak of had nothing to do with the preparedness or equipping of troops in the field. LBJ's mistake was "micromanaging" actual battlefield tactics and strategy from Washington. To compare this to Murtha's entirely reasonable proposal -- only deploy well-equipped, well-rested and well-trained troops -- is comparing apples to lawn chairs. If we are to listen to the conservative pundits (you know, the guys who call a plan to equip and train the troops a "slow bleed" strategy -- who at the Fox Networks thought THAT one up, I wonder?), the way to "support" the troops is to pour them, unprepared, unequipped and untrained, into a meat grinder, and claim that anyone who opposes such idiocy is a freedom-hating terrorist-lover who wants America to lose, and (unbelievably) further claim that they "did not learn the lessons of Vietnam." This, I'm afraid, is a flaw that is more applicable to the author of the current commentary than to a real war veteran like John Murtha.
We lost this "war' the day we first set foot on foriegn soil based upon a lie-or rather a set of lies, demeaning the US, our Constitution, the Office of the President, and countless lives. Viet Nam? Heck, this is worse...and by the way, we lost 55,000 of our people in that conflict. Bring our people home.
Why is it Washington always comes up the easy answers. Did they not learn that in real life there is no easy answers. That is what Mr. Murtha's plain seems to be an easy way to get out. But, there is no easy way out. It is not worth doing unless we do it right.
In the immortal words of Col. Jessup: "You friggin' people (liberals) have no idea how to defend a country." Whether we like it or not, we're in Iraq. Support our troops, give them what they need to finish the job, then bring them home to a hero's welcome. They deserve nothing less. God bless America!
I, as a military brat, have felt we have fought this Irag thing wrong. I believe in hitting them hard and deadly. We have lost too many good lives over there, and we cannot pull out or not give the ones there the proper equipment to fight with. We haven't won a war since Word War II---now there the men in charge knew how to fight. Notice how fast Japan capitulated after the A-bombs. We need to talk softly and carry a BIG STICK. I am tired of being a country looked down on. If we don't win now, we will be on the receiving end of every terrorist attack, here and overseas. This is not a political action but an action to protect everyone from these fundamentalist Muslims. Not all Muslims are bad, just the brain washed ones by crazed by Mullahs. Plus we do not have to fight by the Geneva Convention rules. They are not uniformed troops of a world recognized power, they are mentally deranged demons in civilian clothes who fight dirty---so let the the Army and Marines fight them anyway they want.
I would agree. I just wish others felt the same. Like our leaders, congress, the senate. If they support us, then give us what we need to win. Soldiers, equipment, training, do what ever it takes. I can't believe that the American people have forgotten that it is easier to bargain from a position of power. When you win, we can say “it should have been handled differently”. Then apply what we have learned to the next military action. If we lose, we will have wasted lives, time, money, and our reputation. If we lose we lose everything. Congressman Murtha is getting to be an embarrassment, he may have been a soldier but that was a long time ago, and I think he has forgotten what it means, winning is very important, otherwise we sacrifice in vain. Why are we throwing it all away? This is an all volunteer service, the war has been going on long enough that one would think "there is a very real chance I could find myself in harms way". The leadership here are not much different, they tend to over react to every bump in the road. When you fly as many hours as we do, and perform as many missions as we do, bad things happen. No one is to blame; it's part of the deal. If we are going to police the world we should be willing to finish what we start. What we have learned from past wars and conflicts, we have either failed to remember and apply, or we have chosen to disregard in the interest of saving money. Every great army and every great leader of those armies have applied two basic principles. Take away the enemy’s ground, and occupy the ground you have taken. It is a simple process. We must deny the enemy any place where they can re-supply, regroup or reorganize. It will be the only way we will be able to end the violence that happens here every day. We have become crippled by the belief that we will save every soldier thru the use of technologically advanced equipment. It all comes down to the soldier with their boots on the ground. The soldier that sometimes makes mistakes engaging the wrong target, or causes the death of one of our own thru some other action. There have been deaths from fratricide, suicide, errant rounds fired into crowds of people, but these are the exception, not the rule. Soldiers today are very well trained and are subject to unbelievable scrutiny. All engagements are investigated. The rules of engagement, and weapons control measures and statuses are complicated to the point of absurd. Why, because we are micro managed from the top down. We are teaming with “Monday morning quarterbacks” looking to find fault with everything we do. Daily we are briefed on a course of action that we be retracted, restated or removed before the end of our duty day. We have made this armed conflict into a bureaucratic nightmare. I doubt the American people know, or would begin to understand the leadership challenges that are faced here every day. We are short on parts, equipment, supplies, some times hot water and even electricity. Soldiers buy their own batteries and other equipment so they will have it when they need it, and they still are motivated to do this mission. We are here with our hands tied, our political leaders pulling the carpet out from under our feet, broadcasting their plans to “slowly bleed” Bush’s war and hampering our efforts to take the fight to the enemy. For this there will be a day of reckoning. The American fighting spirit may not reside within the confines of Washington DC, congress, or on the floor of the senate, but I will tell you it is alive and well here in Iraq.
Neither resolve nor political influence nor insufficient funds were the reason we were unsuccessful in Vietnam. You can't slaughter people into agreeing with you. That's the lesson of Vietnam, and it isn't Murtha who has trouble remembering that.
When it comes down to it, the Democrats in congress, and the liberals in the press are giving our enemies worldwide hope, and boosting their morale. Guess where that boosted morale will be directed: Killing Americans and our allies, whereever they can get at us. Thanks for dragging this out, making it worse, and providing our enemies worldwide with inspiration that we can be cowed and broken, and provoked into retreat. If they can do it in Iraq, they will believe they can do it EVERYWHERE. Some of you people need to read "About Face" by Col David Hackworth. You will learn almost all the crap you ever heard about Vietnam IS mostly crap. I'll leave it at that.
Well sir - i WAS involved with the military prior to the big Vietnam buildup. And i remember being lectured to by an Army officer who stated very clearly that "it is the policy of the US Military NEVER to get involved in a land war on the continent of Asia". Why? Because, he said such a conflict could never be won. Bascially it was because 1) we could not isolate the battlefield, 2) lines of supply, resupply, etc were long, and 3) the enemy had a virtual endless supply of resources, men, and territory to work with (think Napoleon in Russia). As for the so called Tonkin Gulf incident - i had a relative on one of those destroyers at the time and he told me NOTHING happened. We were lied into that war just as we've be lied into this one. Only Congress can get us out - does one really believe the idiots who got us into this mess have a clue about how to get us out???
why don't we hand over America to bin laden, and let Murtha his vice regent. and start teaching our kids to kill themselves and kill innocents people. Let pour wives wear berka, and black long dresses. let get rid of bikinis'and let the Islamic rule america. I think this is the best solution to all these mumble, jhumbo of these socialist demorcrats. While we are there, let hugo chavez our prime minister. America and the world would be a peacefull place to live in. Go Murthatalqaedalovers.
Blaming Murtha for trying to get us out this war? That Murtha should remember Vietnam? Maybe Bush should have "remembered" Vietnam and we wouldn't be in Iraq in the first place. Oh yes Bush was awol and drunk, how could he remember.


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