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Exclusive: Juror hopes Libby will be pardoned

Posted: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:29 PM by Hardball

Tonight in an exclusive interview on “Hardball with Chris Matthews,” one of the jurors who just convicted Scooter Libby for perjury and obstruction of justice, decried the narrow focus on Scooter Libby and said that because Libby was the only official charged and because he was not charged with the leak itself, Libby should now be pardoned.  WATCH VIDEO

Ann Redington says she does not follow the news and came into the Libby trial with a “blank slate” about the CIA leak story.  Tonight, she told Hardball, “it kind of bothers me that there was this whole big crime being investigated and he got caught up in the investigation as opposed to in the actual crime that was supposedly committed.”  Asked if she wants a pardon for Libby “out of sympathy” and Redington replied, “Yes.”

“Whether or not he should get one, I don’t know that I have a valid opinion,” Redington said. “But I would like him to get one.”  Chris Matthews then asked Redington, “Do you think he should get one now, when it might cause the president a little bit of trouble but it will keep him out of federal prison or should he get one later at the end of the term when the president can do it at midnight on Christmas even when nobody is watching?  What would be more appropriate?”  Redington responded, “Well, it would certainly be more interesting if he got one now.  It would be more fun to follow.”

Redington repeatedly said she was “concerned” that prosecutors did not charge anybody with the act of leaking Valerie Wilson’s identity, even Scooter Libby.  (Libby was charged with lying and obstructing the criminal investigation.)  Redington said she was disappointed that Ari Fleischer, Karl Rove and others were involved in leaking Wilson’s identity but that Libby was the only one who faced the prospect of prison time. 

Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spoke about this issue after the verdict was returned.  Fitzgerald said, to take a case where a high-level official is telling a story that the basis of his information wasn’t from government officials but came from a reporter, the reporter had told us that was not true, other officials had told us the information came from them, we could not walk away from that.”  Fitzgerald added, “None of us on the team can walk away from what we knew in December 2003 and walk away from that.   And so we’ve brought charges, we went to trial and we’ve proved the case. So we think the facts justify themselves.”

Redington, who wept from the jury box as the verdict was announced by her panel, said she couldn’t bear to look at Scooter Libby or his wife.  She said that she was “overcome with emotion.”

Redington revealed that all of the 12 jurors who went into jury deliberations took extensive notes during the trial.  Redington said that during deliberations, when one juror couldn’t recall specifics about testimony or evidence from the case, “somebody else” always managed to have the answer in their own notes.  Redington said that when the jury first entered into deliberations, they asked one another who did not want to serve as foreperson.  Several jurors raised their hands.  Then, after the other jurors said they “would serve as foreperson,” the jurors took a secret ballot and a staffer at a local law firm was elected foreperson.  Redington said the panel spent the next seven days reviewing the evidence, evaluating the credibility of every witness, putting together timelines, and discussing the overall case.  Redington said it was only on day eight when the jury took their first votes on the five counts against Libby.  The verdicts were completed two days later when the jury reached a guilty verdict on four counts and a not guilty verdict on one count.

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What I found astonishing about Kate O'Beirne's plea for a pardon is that she's now at odds with Dubya's earlier-stated attitude on punishing leakers. Either she's with Dubya or against him, and it's clear that she now stands against him.
OMG Lady, get a grip...guess if your a nice guy, work for the republican party in some form or another, you should be automatically exempted from any responsibility if you break the law, get a get out of jail card free and become the poster child for the republican party on how to get away with anything and not have to pay for it. This wasn't a simple matter of a nice guy getting caught in the middle of something...this was a guy "outing" a CIA Operative, putting her life, as well as the lives of other CIA operatives in very grave danger. DUH what part of that concept did you miss in the trial? In addition because he gave away her identity she could no longer safely work in a career which still had a considerable life span too it had not Mr Libby decided to play political payback along with the rest of the "NICE GUYS" in the BUSH Whitehouse. To suggest that he should be pardoned because... why?....because he's nice? Lady, he broke the law...he lied to federal prosecutors, he obstructed justice. If anyone without political clout or connections did that they would be spending the rest of their retirement years in a not so nice federal prison someplace....without any possibility of pardon or parole...So save the bleeding heart for someone who deserves it...Scooter Libby doesn't. For every CIA operative, Intelligence Officer, NSA, FBI, CIA employee out there I hope Mr Libby gets an equivalent number of days in his prison sentence.
I have served on a jury and you do feel sorry for the person who's future you hold in your hands but you don't want them pardoned!I don't feel sorry for old Scooter, he's an idiot. Why would anyone take the rap for Cheney? I wish he'd take that "open door" at Fitzgerald's office. There must be a payback in his future. Reminds me of "Goodfellows" when Ray Liotta goes to jail and Paul Sorvino and DeNiro take care of his family while he's away. Same thing.
I watched this discussion live, earlier this evening, with Ms. Redington. Her problem with the fact that no one was charged with "outing" Valerie Plame is shared by many. Fitzgerald was asked to find potential criminality in the alledged outing of a covert CIA operative. National security issue. Period. There was NO CRIME here. Armitage outed Ms. Plame's name. Ms. Plame, Joe Wilson, and Armitage did not appear before the Court. The jurors wanted to hear about a breach of security. Instead they heard about a forgetful official who was trying to discover why Joe Wilson was spreading lies about Iraq intelligence. If Cheney was trying to discredit Joe Wilson, it was for cause. Joe was lying. Saying that "Valerie Plame was at CIA and sent her husband on an African wild goose chase" is the truth. This juror's instincts are right on! "Where's the beef" Mr. Fitzgerald? Scooter was just doing his job. What the hell was Joe Wilson doing in Niger and why does a CIA spook's husband write in the NY Times, if he's concerned about her covert status?
Chris on two occasions the white house ask the French government: is there any truth to the 500 tonnes shipment of yellow cake from Niger to sadam .Twice the answer was a categorique NO, The French manages the mining.Chirac has been silent on this for obvious reasons .So Wilson report was like a "plat rechauffe". Cheney was in a dip hole long before Fitzgerald inquiry.Why don't you talk about that?
ASfter watching Kate O'Blarney's performance on Hardball, it's aesy to see where the Washington Post editorial board gets it's mendacity.
Kate O'Beirne today made it clear that she has been drinking the Kool-Aid in her faith-based, neo-con alternative universe! All of the jurors were wrong, Libby is innocent, and many facts in testimony were never stated. Oddly, only one day after trial, Libby should be denied the judicial appeal process by accepting guilt via a pardon which Libby has not even requested! She read from the same radical, neo-con talking points as did Ed Rogers and David Rivkin yesterday. These folks are not "conservatives" as understood by the vast majority of America. Real conservatives honor due process of law and our judicial process. Libby had the best possible defense attorneys. I have served on three jury trials, and all of us gave our full attention to respecting our oaths as jurors. The neo-cons are insulting the Libby jurors by disrespecting their diligent service to justice.
As was apparent from the National Review's Kate O'Beirne appearance on Hardball, the conservatives' spin for a pardon for Libby (unlike Ann's call for sympathy) is that there was no underlying crime and everyone knew it: the CIA before it called for an investigation and the Special Prosecutor before he began his investigation. This is not true. The prosecutor never said this. Even at this date it is not clear whether or not the prosecutor believes that leaking Mrs. Wilson's name and the fact that she's was employed at the time by the CIA constituted a crime. The only conclusion that can be deduced - and only after his intensive investigation - was that a successful prosecution under the relevant statute would be very difficult.
"He seemed like a really nice guy" Isnt that what you usually hear people say when they find out there neighbor was hiding bodies in the basement? Come on now hes also an adult who has made a decision to cover for his comrads. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time... that is unless you know you've got a pardon coming......
Are we keeping our eye on the ball? The whole reason Libby was brought to court to begin with was to find out who was involved in the crime of the outing of a CIA agent. It seems as though the only thing that has been established in this trial is....some people have less than perfect memories. Remember when Mr. President said "nobody wants to get to the bottom of this more than I do"? The Press ought to be asking the President; "Do you still want to get to the bottom of this?" "Are you satisfied with the progress of the investigation of who committed the crime of outing a CIA agent?" "You're the decider Mr President, why don't you just call all your people on the carpet in the Oval Office and demand to know who the culpret is?" instead of dragging the country through this endless nonsense.
Shorter Kate O'Beirne: Clinton committed perjury, admitted his crime, and as a consequence he should have been impeached. Libby committed perjury, has not admitted his crime and maintains his dishonest claim, and as a consequence he should be pardoned. The pardon hinges on whether the convicted felon continues to deny his crime in Kate's world. Why does the National Review keep her on staff?
the only time she needed to show up for court was to convict libby. if this was in some middle america court room thier would have been a differnt verdict. you people are harming the usa,and our to stupid to realizie it
Ann Reddington was brilliant!
My favorite part of the show tonight was watching Chris throw what's her name(the national review) on the grill. It's unbelievable how people are still saying the investigation and trial were a waste of time. I think the investigation is incomplete. A jury has convicted Scooter on lying, which makes it easier to believe he was protecting the VP. Fitzgerald said yesterday that Plame's status at the CIA was secret. These two facts; Plame being a secret CIA asset, and Scooter's conviction, imply seedy behavior on the part of the VP. Redington's appearence on the show tonight made me feel confident the jury came to the right decision. She seemed to be a very reasonable, careful person, or in other words, she seemed like a person I would agree with on a jury. Redington said on the show that the evidence convinced her that Libby lied, rather than mis-spoke. I only wish that Fitzgerald would keep the investigation open so that we may begin to understand the relationship between the VP and the intelligence PR campaign to get us into Iraq. Nice blog David and great show Chris!
He'll get his pardon, its not like he is the first person in a Bush administion to lie and leak information. ------------------------------------------------------ For example: In 1977, Rove was the first person hired by George H. W. Bush for his official (ultimately unsuccessful) 1980 presidential campaign, which ended with Bush being selected as Ronald Reagan's vice-presidential nominee. Reagan and Bush won the election, but Rove was fired in the middle of the campaign for leaking information to the press. ------------------------------------------------------ And now Rove is the mastermind behind the currrent fate of the free world
i cant believe that kate o'beirne thinks because scooter libby didn't confess to lying,that he didn't lie! most of the republicans seem to ''believe'' too much and not ''know'' actual facts.all of them use the same words,like they've been to the same language arts class,and talk about they're ''beliefs''.that woman really is out of touch with reality,to put it kindly.please get maore of her ilk on,i like the way she was shown to be out of reality.it is most of the partys' stance.
Libby leniency? This is just another ‘watching the paint dry’ story. The only thing that would make the Libby finale interesting would be for Bush to pardon him now. Considering all of the failures of this administration, giving a get out of jail card to Libby pales in comparison to the fiascoes in the Middle East and those yet to be unveiled involving cutting the budget for military hospitals and related care. Do we really need more proof of Bush’s blatant disregard for human life and even less for the rule of law? Maybe he should start the pardoning process now. Having to pardon more criminals than any of his predecessors will only add to his legacy of lies and obfuscations; thereby, adding at least a footnote of consistency—albeit immoral. York Van Nixon III 3/8/07 York@YorkVanNixonIII.Com
I don't think we should feel sorry for Scooter Libby until they release the damage report caused by exposing Valerie Plame name. From what we know now, it is clear that Cheney and Libby never discussed or cared if CIA methods of covert operatives were exposed. Just stop and think about all the information gained by knowing she was a covert operative (NOC). The way the CIA created Valerie Plame's identity is no longer possible and all the agents with similar identities are in danger. Cheney is on record for not believing the information coming from the CIA. He is totally irresponsible for putting politics over the safety of our covert agents. We should have a support our covert agents in addition to lip service of supporting the troops.
No problem on the bulk of this show and Libby juror, Ann Redington, in particular. And I personally don’t care whether Bush pardons Libby or not --- now that these matters have at least been aired publicly. But SHAME on Chris Matthews for allowing National Review’s Kate O’Beirne on the telecast and allowing her to lead the topic astray and then NOT CORRECTING HER when she was allowed to make the same FALSE statement 2 or 3 times. Bill Clinton admitted to lying (and “in court”), but he NEVER admitted to perjury as Ms. O’Beirne flat-out stated several times in trying to make a case that Clinton’s offenses were somehow worse than Scooter Libby’s. Give me one quote SPECIFICALLY USING THE TERM “PERJURY” where Clinton said anything like that, Ms. O’Beirne. That’s a flat-out lie in itself! In fact, one of the 4 articles of impeachment (Article 2, I believe) specifically charged him with the crime of perjury. Since Clinton was ultimately acquitted of all charges, I think someone should tell Ms. O’Beirne that a jury of Mr. Clinton’s peers specifically came to a different conclusion than her as to Clinton’s guilt regarding perjury. The difference is in the definition of “perjury”. In order for “a lie in court” to rise to the level of “perjury”, it must be proved that “the lie” is MATERIAL to the criminal charges involved in that case. The jury thought so in the Scooter Libby trial but NOT in the impeachment trial of Bill Clinton. Unlike most American and World public opinion, Ms. O’Beirne seems to think lying about a private, consensual “affair” is somehow worse than lying about a national security “affair” that put American intelligence officials’ lives at stake. Even if she truly believes that, she should at least be honest enough to relate each lie to the actual “criminal charges” involved in each trial. Mr. Libby’s “lies” went right to the core of the charges against him; Mr. Clinton’s “lies” related in no manner to ANY crime!
Funny . . . even one of the jurors thinks Libby got railroaded.
Kate O'Beirne (sp?) really got away with claptrap yesterday in her comments about Joe Wilson and her claim that this special prosecutor in the Libby case was dealing with a minor political squabble. Ambassador Wilson made a serious claim about the intelligence the Bush Admnistration was using in its plan to invade Iraq. Wilson also wrote an excellent explaining his position and his career, "The Politics of Truth." This Iraq War, which could have been avoided if people had listened to Wilson, has cost thousands of lives and has seriously damaged U.S. image abroad and its stature abroad as well as its military capability to handle real threats. To compare Libby's perjury and obstruction of justice with President Clinton's statements about his relationship with Monica Lewinksy as Kate O'Beirne did is beyond the pale. We need to find out everything about the pnony arguments that this White House used. We need to know that they deliberately discredited Ambassador Wilson for opposing them and broke the law in revealing his wife's j ob with the CIA.
Scooter Libby went before a Grand Jury, placed his hand on a Bible, and swore to tell the whole truth. And then he lied. Not once or twice but multiple time. Evidence presented in the trial of Libby left the jury with no suitable alternative other than to find him guilty on four counts of perjury. So now there is a call from some, even from one of the former jurors, for a Presidential pardon because Libby seems like a “nice guy”. The simple truth is Scooter Libby did not tell the truth when he had the opportunity and now he must pay the price. No one is above the laws of the United States. A pardon? No way!
I am glad that the decision was not mine. she did a wonderful job under horific circumstances. However, I as most americans don't know if there was an original law broken(the outing). Chris could not say on last night show and after all these years you would think a journalist would know. Now I know what an idealog is though. Cato actually gave me an upset stomach.
This is unbelievable to be talking about being convicted of OBSTRUCTION of justice and to be talking about pardon. He lied and the question to be answerer is WHY did he lie. To keep the truth from coming out until after the election. A very sad day for truth and freedom. ---
Whether Scooter gets a pardon or not is immaterial. In the context of the grave issues relative to how the attack on Iraq was "justified", Scooter is just an attempt at diversion. But he's more like a firefly in the Grand Canyon. The bogus propaganda which Feith, Wolfowitz, & Co. passed off as "intelligence" and which was knowingly used by the Bush adminisration to mount the criminal attack on the Iranian people is the real kernel in this nut. After all, the purpose of the "attack" has proven to be the total destruction of that country. Same as the attack and total destruction of Lebanon while Condoleeza played on her fiddle. I don't call them wars. Laser guided bombs and tomahawk missles blowing up mud huts and slump block buildings are punitive actions. Nothing more....They become crimes against humanity when innocent civilians are knowingly killed and maimed. I'm with Hagel. Articles of Impeachment should be introduced. Our blood, treasure, and the very soul of our American values have been squandered furthering the goals of zionist oppression and apartheid against Arab peoples.
Please stop with the nonsense that the Wilson's or the CIA cared about keeping Valerie Plame's identity "secret". The CIA's internal policies for real covert or sensitive agents would not allow a CIA spouse to go on a mission to Niger and blab about it in the NY Times and go on the Sunday news programs blasting the sitting American President. NO WAY! The CIA would not allow this scenario nor would the secret agent themselves allow their spouse to bring attention to them and their family. She was not covert;there was no illegal outing;the leakers did not appear before the Court; hence the jurors' perplextion about why the hell so much time and effort was spent on Scooter. So sleep tight,worry free, because the Wilson's are not threatened by any harm done by Valerie's occupation being made public (by Armitage). Give the spook nonsense a rest, please. Fitzgerald did.
Everybody that was in that Courtroom should get a Tetanus Shot.
Perhaps the apparently rising opinion favoring a pardon for Mr. Libby is a result of public recognition of that rarest of people, the stand-up guy. For more than two years Mr. Libby has been in the prosecutor's sights and the joke writers' whiz-bags, and has not succumbed to the urge to turn the "keys to the courthouse" by ratting out someone else. Nor, mirabile dictu, has he "...voluntarily entered an undisclosed rehab facility to receive help battling a long-standing problem with drugs and alcohol." Mr. Libby should never have lied but isn't it refreshing to see someone, anyone, take a beating like a man?
Though Ann Redington seemed to be a kind, articulate and thoughtful woman who, with her fellow jurors, couldn't find that Libby was anything but GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY when presented with all the evidence, I find her hope that he'll be pardoned quite puzzling. Why? Because he seemed like a "ton of fun?" I'm sure there plenty of convicted felons in prisons across the country that would be happy to give her a good time. Should they too be pardoned? It's a sad day for America when pardons are handed out as political hushmoney rather than the rare acts of mercy, as they were meant to be.
kudos to whoever extended ms redingtons time on hardball last night. her compsure and sincirety was a breath of fresh air.This was a grand civics lesson about democracy.
I don't care if Bill Clinton lied...that's not the point. That was then...this is now. A jury decided that Scooter lied...it's as simple as that. The Conservatives are saying that 2 wrongs make a right...in this case far right. So whatever Bill Clinton did or said as President, makes everything that a conservative does OK. I heard another conservative commentator on TV the other day say that because Senator Byrd used the N word a few years ago, it was OK for Ann Coulter to use the F word. What's wrong is wrong, no matter who does it. What's against the law, is against the law, no matter who does it. This "well he did it too", just doesn't float. Scooter broke the law, and he should do the time. The sins of the last President don't excuse the sins of this Administration....and I wish that everyone would stop trying to tie them together.
I think that since Libby was convicted of essentially the same thing as Clinton, he should get the same punishment.
1) Valerie Plame was not a covert operative at the time of the "leak". 2) Many other people already knew she worked at the CIA before the "leak". 3) It has never been proven that there actually was a "leak", let alone that the White House was responsible for it, or that it was malicious. 4) The Wilson's will be multi-millionaires before the end of the year from books and movies. Great use of time and energy Democrats!
You're heading in the wrong direction with the Scooter Libby thing. The argument that there was no crime in the disclosure of Ms. Wilson is irrelevant. Every year grand juries convene to see if a crime was committed. Many do not result in a subpoena. Many do not result in a criminal action. The merit of the investigation does not excuse lying to the investigators. Libby lied about a serious government issue, whether it was illegal or not, he lied. When Bill Clinton lied about a personal issue, not government related, he was impeached. The reporters like Kate O'Beirne and Bob Novak, who would excuse mass murder if it was committed by a conservative, should turn in their credentials as new reporters - they are editorializing the news not reporting.
To Andy from Osterville, and all others who wish to defend the slandering of Mr. Wilson, and believe the pursuit of the truth that led to Mr. Libbys being found guilty was inappropriate, I ask this: Why, when the president was focusing national attention on the reasons for invading Iraq did the vice president (and so his aide Libby) focus on Wilson ? The answer appears glaring, that it was to squelch further dissent and doubts about the intel being passed to Americans about why we needed to invade Iraq. With the divulgence that the CIA tried to have the 16 words removed from the speech the president gave to Americans, and the world, the truth of the grand lie seems very clear.
What the next show needs is a legal expert to discuss the question whether there was an underlying crime in Fitzgerald's leak investigation. The conservative spin machine proports that there was none. I would like to hear legal experts discuss this important issue rather than have conservative spin masters go unchallenged.
After seeing this juror for two night now, other that Chris, Where is the moral outrage? This war, the trial, this administration. Not everybody spit on the troops coming home from Nam.There was also a loud clear and clean outrage. These troops get spit on at Walter Reed .Morality, justice and the truth trumps anything that might be said or done about this mess.
1. This trial was not a waste of time: Libby lied under oath and it's a felony. If he is stupid enough to lie for Cheney, he needed to face the consequences of his actions. 2. He should never be pardoned: He was convicted of a felony. If he gets a pardon, this condones lying to the FBI and Grand Jury's. Is this what we want? It was about time there was some "accountability" for actions of government officials.
Is the Libby problem the same as Martha Stewart? She was investigated for insider trading but got convicted of lying. She never got charged with the origial crime. The Feds don't like when you lie during an investigation. Most of all when your under oath. If you pardon Libby you have to pardon Martha and the others in the same circumstances because you have said it is not a crime to lie under oath or during an investigation.
It's obvious that the real tragedy is that Libby lied about a non crime. For if outing Plame was a crime then Fitzgerald would have prosecuted, which is what his original mandate stipulated. And please can we stop lying to each other about no one being above the law.
I heard Ms. Redington describe Mr. Libby as a "really nice guy," or something to that effect. Then I opened "Hubris" by Michael Isikoff and David Corn and found a completely different description of Mr. Libby's personal attributes. The text calls him "cool, meticulous, and secretive..."; "He had the reputation of being a prick..."; "Hard-Nosed" etc. Of course, I don't know Mr. Libby from a hole-in-the-wall, but I think I'd like to know a lot more about him, given these discrepant descriptions, before I would support a pardon based upon his perceived "niceness."
I think its ironic that Redington complained that prosecuters had not idicted anyone on the leak of Plame's name when that's what this whole trial was about. These guys obstructed justice and would not allow the prosecution to do its job whil it was investigating. Its a shame, because now no one will be prosecuted for the actual crime. But at least the prosecution held the Administration responsible for its snow job.
This trail was about a lot more than whether or not Scooter Libby lied and obstructed justice, which he clearly did. This trial was about the lengths to which this administration, and particularly the Vice President's office, was willing to go to squelch any discussion/debate into whether or not they actively lied this nation into a war. From the very moment these thugs siezed power, they began planning this war. They opened the Office of Special Plans at the Pentagon to manufacture their bogus intelligence, then used corrupted conduits at major media outlets (Judith Miller, Matt Cooper, Robert Novack, etc.) to inject that propaganda into the mainstream media, at which point it was repeated ad naseum to create the desired effect: panic, fear, and support for war. These guys should all be tried for their crimes and then locked up in a dark place for eternity.


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