Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Jacob, Baltimore — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:46:29 GMT

Great Segment!, We need more debate like this on TV.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

AL Engleman, Fallon, NV — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:48:25 GMT

Pat wants it both ways. Killing is killing. Abortion is a Medical procedure, and that is where the 'right to privacy" comes from. Women don't really have a right to abort, they do have a right not to have the Govt interrfere with their private medical decisions.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Stanley Mozden — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:48:52 GMT

No one has mentioned that Barack Obama has pledged to make an effort for a REAL significant reduction of abortions. He has invited Catholic organizations as well as Evangelicals to the table to develop a plan for achieving this. True it is a program that is not absolute. However, absolutism has resulted in the type in discussion I just watched and not any advances in ending abortions. Why not give gradualism a chance? The Jesuits when founded said they would go any where to learn. Why not let anyone bring that to you?

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Melanie, Baltimore, MD — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:48:53 GMT

I try to watch various shows morning and evening on MSNBC. But truly, the high tempered, yelling is unpleasant to watch not to mention simply uninformative. I am not a fan of sitcoms nor reality television but I prefer them to two screaming heads. Thanks but no thanks.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Maureen Woods, Park Ridge, Il — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:49:45 GMT

Why do you even give a goofball like Pat Buch-cant-make-sense a platform? Disgusting!!! He condones the killer Bush and basically accuses Obama of murder. Don't ever give this weirdo air time again.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Donna Davis, Bellingham, WA — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:54:22 GMT

I am a Catholic 59 year old woman. I am for a woman's right to choice and I am against the death penalty. President Obama should be allowed to speak at any University, just like former President's including President Bush. Where was your outrage then Pat Buchanan ??? You are a tired, old man, Pat Buchanan. You worked for one of the foremost crooks in this United States. Isn't it time you retired??? I am so tired of you Republican speakers and your hateful, vile and disgusting words. Don't you remember the golden rule??? If you don't have anything nice to say "SHUT UP!!! You Republicans were voted out of office, haven't you gotten the message yet??? We are tired of you and your mean, negative thinking. I am a Catholic and I voted for Obama and I am Democrat. How do you like them APPLES PAT//

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Lisa, Lawton, Oklahoma — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:54:46 GMT

Mr O'Donnnell is right. The Catholic Church is opposed to the death penalty.

http://tinyurl.com/dj97qf

"The Church's commitment to the value and dignity of human life leads us to oppose the use of the death penalty. We believe that a return to the use of the death penalty is further eroding respect for life in our society. We do not question society's right to protect itself, but we believe that there are better approaches to protecting our people from violent crimes. The application of the death penalty has been discriminatory toward the poor, the indigent, and racial minorities. Our society should reject the death penalty and seek methods of dealing with violent crime that are more consistent with the gospel visions of respect for life and Christ's message of healing love. This principle is set forth in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Hikki Mori — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:55:49 GMT

An interesting "debate". I'm not Catholic so I don't fully understand. I don't consider a zygote a person (I guess I consider them a person pretty late in the cycle). Also, though those prisoners were deemed guilty by our justice system, how is it that our justice system is 100% correct all the time? Also, Bush did order the war in Iraq, and yes, innocents were killed there too. Very odd, theology.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Christopher T. Wood — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:57:25 GMT

God bless you Lawrence O'D. You gave creedence to the reality of the Catholic Social Techings which are lost on Republican Catholics.

Pat "the Blowhard" Buchanan, a graduate of Georgetown U., obviously never attended the theology classes. The Jesuits must be turning over in their classrooms!

You need go no further than the Catholics Bishops website to read the REALITY of the Catholic Social Teachings...no abortions, no Death penalty, no elective war.

ND had George Bush at a Commencement, he who failed two of those three Catholic positions on "life"

There is no upheavel in the overall Catholic community. Catholics reflect almost to the decimal point the stands of the general American voter.

Onlu Buchanan and his ilk think they talk for the American Catholic populace. It's time to wake up and realize that is not the reality.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Dana P. Clark, Austin, Texas — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:07:30 GMT

Pat Buchanan made a complete idiot out of himself by his outrageous comments to Lawrence O'Donnell about hypocrasy on this volatile issue. I agreed with Lawrence that Pat was wrong on the facts. Further, I know many Catholics who are pro-choice, and I guarantee that not everyone who attends Notre Dame is necessarily pro-life either, whether they would admit it or not. If President Obama was asked to speak at Notre Dame, then he should, and students and faculty should be honored. Obviously the individual who made the request didn't have any problems with Obama's view on abortion, whatsoever. This is just another malicious attempt by all the right-to-lifers and right wing Republicans, like Pat Buchanan, to once again continue to stir things up, because they can't stand the fact that Obama won in November, hands down, and how popular he really is, both here and abroad.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Joan Kuhn, Morongo Valley, CA — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:10:50 GMT

Obama doesn't "condone" abortion! He respects the very differing consciences and opinions about when human life begins! He is pro CHOICE, not pro abortion! I consider myself a good Catholic and I would never advise friends or family to abort, I'm not sure that life begins at the moment of conception. Some think a fetus is human when it "quickens", others at viability. Since there is no consensus, certainty is truly beyond our pay grades, how can we make laws about it? I'm disappointed that O'Donnell didn't make the distinction between pro choice and pro abortion.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

G in Indiana — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:10:52 GMT

The only reason that the complainers of Notre Dame have an issue with the President speaking at their university may not be his belief in Abortion rights but something else that no one for the university would surely admit. When I was at Notre Dame visiting a friend I noticed as gross lack of representation of minorities. I live in Indiana and when I was looking for colleges Notre Dame would have been a logical choice for me because it was well respected and only 1 hour away from home. As a minority I did not feel comfortable there. One of the students even told me that the only minorities that attend the school "play sports". Maybe the reason for my discomfort is the cause for The Complainers thoughts concerning the President's visit.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

John, Larchmont, NY — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:14:26 GMT

I am watching Pat Buchanan railing against Obama speaking at Notre Dame and I feel like my head is going to explode! Lawrence O'Donnell correctly pointed out that these hypocritical priests did not voice opposition to George Bush speaking at Notre Dame, after he rejected the Pope's personal pleas to not invade Iraq, which subsequently directly resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and after George Bush personally approved the execution of more human beings than any other president in history. Buchanan went on to vociferously refute any moral equivalence between the deaths of living and breathing human beings brought about by Bush, versus President Obama’s support of a woman’s right to choose. These arguments by Buchanan were completely spurious and fallacious. Buchanan’s argument that George Bush personally approving the execution is acceptable because a baby is completely innocent and the people put to death were guilty of murder. Even if one was to believe that the standard of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt ensures to a 100% certainty that no defendants get convicted of crimes they didn’t commit (another fallacy), as a good Catholic, Pat Buchanan must be aware that Christ would not approve of a man putting another man to death based on his human judgment. That is a judgment to be made by God, and not by fellow man. Additionally, as a Catholic, Buchanan must be aware that the Catholic Church believes that a newborn baby possesses Original Sin. This is the purpose of Baptism, to purge the baby of Original Sin. According to the Catholic Church, if a baby dies un-baptized, he would go to Purgatory. Buchanan is wrong on both counts: that the people who were sent to their deaths by George Bush were guilty of murder and therefore the judgment of man properly determined their fates (he didn’t even seem to address the deaths of innocent Iraqis), and that an unborn baby is completely without sin. Many people may believe that an unborn or newborn baby is completely innocent, but Pat’s arguments were all based on Catholic theology, which does not believe that an unborn baby is completely innocent. Buchanan was either purposely trying to mislead the public in an effort to smear President Obama, or else his thinking has been completely clouded by the indoctrination of the zealots of the religious right. As much as I disagree with Pat Buchanan, I do not believe he is so weak minded to have been so thoroughly brainwashed by the right so as to cause him to eschew the teachings of his own religion.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Bruce Stadtler ,Easton, Pa. — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:17:42 GMT

O`donnell has no clue of what the bible says about the death penalty. I don`t care what the pope says, he is wrong most of the time {salvation,Mary,the LORD`s supper,and many other doctrines!!!}But the bible is very clear on the death penalty in a few places,2 main places are in Ecclesiastes 8:11 & Ezra 7:25-26. Can Mr.Odonnell please tell me what it is to be SAVED and be BORN AGAIN and to be a Christian? Most people who claim to be a Christian have no clue. I really get angry when talk show hosts mention Christianity and are totally wrong, same when I listen to Hannity or O`reilly too.The FINAL AUTHORITY is the BIBLE,not a pope,a church or man. We just seem to throw, I`m a Christian around very easily without really know what TRUE Christianity really is.I would love to hear from you and share the GOSPEL to you. Bruce

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Lisa Garcia — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:46:29 GMT

Obama is NOT "pro-abortion". There is NO SUCH thing as being "pro-abortion". There is no woman on this planet that gets pregnant on purpuse just so she can have an abortion. This is why I left the Catholic Church! I am "pro-choice" which means it was MY decision to NEVER HAVE AN ABORTION. President Obama has got to be one of the finest human beings in the world, a man who respects and admires women and NORTE DAME wants to punish him for that! I hope Obama bows out. Norte Dame just isn't worth his time!

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Dennis E. Self — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:58:37 GMT

I invite all three of the Catholic talkers on tonights Hardball show to reread their "Catechism of the Catholic Church" paragraphs 2258 - 2317 to understand what their church teaches and what it believes. For those of you who are not Catholic borrow one of the catechisms' and read it. You all might be surprised. Of course that assumes those educated ones presenting the argument can read?

LTC Dennis E. Self, BS, BA, MMAS, MTS

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Paul, Battle Creek, MI — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:43:40 GMT

I don’t know why the University invited someone who has actively opposed one of its core beliefs that has been one of its core beliefs for centuries. I don’t why they would go to the next step and present the person with an Honorary degree. If tomorrow it was announced that Dick Cheney was being honored with a Noble Peace Prize, or the Sierra Club was honoring someone who actively campaigning against global warming would you not find it strange and question their thinking.

As to the references to pedophile priest. I think there would be just as much if not more uproar from all people including the pro-life people if a known pedophile who otherwise was very intelligent and in full agreement with all of the other Catholic beliefs were being honored.

While I don’t always agree with Pat Buchanan, I do agree that there is a difference between some one put to death by the death penalty and someone terminated by abortion. For one thing there are more humans terminated by abortion in an hour then there are people killed by the Death Penalty in a year. And there are more humans terminated by abortion in a month then there have been people executed by the Death Penalty in the entire history of our country.

I am against the death penalty and fortunately live in a state that does not have it and would strongly campaign against it if our state tried to reinstate it.

On the other hand if I went out into society and raped, mutilated, and/or committed multiple murders I would have a hard time feeling that society did not have the right in turn to terminate my life.

No Pat’s right in my opinion both abortion and the death penalty are wrong, but they are not the same level.

I know our president believes in science and is willing to fully fund science research. I just wish he would have science study why we are a species that chooses to kill our offspring by the millions. As a parent and a member of the human species this has always befuddled me.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Denis Riney WIlton CT — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:50:54 GMT

Pat made the pro life case well tonite. I looked it up and Lawrence ODonnell was wrong tonight about the Pope JP2's view on the death penalty. In his Evangelum Vitae, he absolutely condemns abortion, but says in some rare cases the death penalty can be used to protect society. This fraud needs to go back to writing porno like he did during the campaign this year (yes, he really did!)

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Paul, Honolulu, HI — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 07:08:28 GMT

Lawrence O'Donnell performed a beneficial act to point out the hypocrisy of Pat Buchanan's position regarding President Obama speaking engagement at Notre Dame. His comparison between Obama and Bush was particularly illuminating. But O'Donnell could have gone further in making this poiint. For example, who could possibly put forth that Bush is more consistent with Catholic doctrine than Obama? Bush condones torture--Obama does not. Bush incarcerates people without so much as first charging them--Obama rejects the imprisonment of the innocent (until charged, tried, and found guilty, these people are innocent). Bush started an unprovoked war in Iraq, resulting in the death, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent civilians--Obama would never do such an unchristian act. It is absolutely absurd for those people who welcome Bush to Notre Dame to reject Obama. Shame on them.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Liz Nuncio San Antonio Texas — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:39:30 GMT

I am a Roman Catholic and I am apalled to hear some
catholics do not want President Obama to speak at ND,
God Forgive Them for They Know not What They Do.
Its absurd when people of other religions have spoken
at ND and some have been pro-choice and some pro-life. Lets respect an individuals choice.
Liz Nuncio, San Antonio, Texas

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

CradleCatholic, Pa — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:39:41 GMT

Though I agree with LOD, they are actually both wrong about what the Catholic Church views. If abortion is permitted those children have no "social justice" worries, do they? The magnitude of the abortion question (Millions/year. Millions....)outweighs all other concerns. They also were against the Iraq war and the death penality. But the magnitude of the killing of innocents trumps all other concerns. ( Yet, my ignorant heart agrees with Lawrence.) I think all Catholics should be better educated. They should have theologians on the show to clarify both of their political commentators misconceptions.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Gerry Miller Winston-Salem, NC — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:25:46 GMT

Obama should never speak at any Catholic Institution.
He has absolutly nothing to say to any Catholic. In Turkey Obama stated the US is not a Christian nation, but secular. Does reflect his mind set? I am Catholic and Lawrence O'Donnell is wrong and Pat Buchanan is correct. I cannot see that Obama has done one thing for this country. But....let all the people who voted for him sit and wait. The next years will not be pretty.

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

Alison Schaub, Notre Dame, IN — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:12:52 GMT

As a graduating senior at Notre Dame, I am honored to have President Obama come to speak at my commencement. While it frustrates me deeply that this one issue (of abortion) defines how people think about almost everything, I am more frustrated by the fact that the debate completely ignores the thoughts and opinions of the student body of Notre Dame, and especially of the Senior Class. While 70% of alumni oppose Obama speaking, 70% of students support him. More importantly, 97% of the Senior Class supports him speaking. These stats are courtesy of our campus newspaper, and speak for themselves. Not to mention the hypocracy (re: George Bush giving commencement address).

Sparring over Obama's Notre Dame commencement

aRosie, Fairfield Iowa — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:26:15 GMT

Pat, as a Catholic, I truly believe in the right to choose. Years ago the church had trained women on call in case a woman wanted to stop a pregnancy. In some cases this is the RIGHT thing to do...now that the church policy has changed, it does not mean it is a better policy. Who cares what the church thinks? The church fails miserable at times (crusades, inquisition, sexually perverted priest...etc etc etc

as a Catholic I have learned that my contract is with God and not with any intermediaries. The history of the church is rife with corruption, abuses of power and LIES...the stories in the bible are altered beyond belief etc. All in all they have lost all credibility.