Debating affirmative action

CWWhite, Silver Spring, Maryland — Thu, 07 May 2009 23:47:19 GMT

What appears to be missing in the discussion of the Frank Ricci case is that the most important part of most exams given by fire departments and law enforcements is the oral part of the test and this is where any discrimination will take place which nas historically occured in both fire department and police exams.

Debating affirmative action

Michelle, Denver, CO — Thu, 07 May 2009 23:54:06 GMT

As an African-American, I firmly believe that tests can be culturally biased and/or maniuplated to obtain a result favorable to the white majority. That being said, the fundamental unfairness in this case has to do with the fact that the City chose this method for deciding the promotions and then when it did not like the results threw it out and then failed to act quickly in finding another fair acceptable method. The City is wrong.

Debating affirmative action

Joanne Minsky, San Francisco, California — Fri, 08 May 2009 00:04:43 GMT

Because the firefighter is dyslexic, he is disabled under the Americans with disabilities act. He was entitled to more time to take the test in the first place, because of his reading problem, that doesn't interfere with doing his job. Further, he was entitled to be counted with other discriminated against people, such as African Americans. I am from California. People who take the State Bar Exam who are dyslexic, get extra time to write it, because it takes longer to read the question. When you practice law, you have the extra time, so it doesn't matter. As long as you understand the information when you take the test. Your firefighter was entitled to affirmative action.

Debating affirmative action

Joy Schulman NY, NY — Fri, 08 May 2009 05:04:36 GMT

I think it is important that public servants, including fire fighters, come from the same communities they are serving. This gives them the connection necessary to do a good job. Furthermore, a test that results in different racial groups, who hold the same position, doing drastically different is questionable in terms of cultural bias. The city should have given a more accurate test to begin with, but since they did not, they are correct in throwing the results of this test out.
Until minorities are in jobs in the same proportion as they are in the population, affirmative action will be needed to create equality.

Debating affirmative action

George, Richmond, Virginia — Fri, 08 May 2009 05:10:19 GMT

It is ironic that the ultimate decision on this case may be made by the U.S. Supreme Court, which is currently preparing to replace a retiring justice -facing the very same issues of selection criteria and court make-up. Should we (and do we?)only use test scores to determine the most critical leadership positions in our society, without considering other factors? Should we just use the highest score from a test to determine the next Supreme Court Justice, the next Congressman, or the next President?

Debating affirmative action

Rita Moore, Hartford, CT — Fri, 08 May 2009 12:45:43 GMT

You didn't mention that Ricci has severe disabilities,
and had to hire someone to read the help him pass the
exam, at a great expense. It is much, much more than
a black vs white case, and this should be mentioned.
Having a grandson with similar problems, I AM MOST SYMPATHETIC TO HIS CAUSE. and very, very much want him
to win this case,.

Debating affirmative action

Dave Edwards, New Haven, CT — Fri, 08 May 2009 13:43:33 GMT

This case comes down to the question - Was the test racially biased? New Haven argues the test was biased after the results came out- even though they spent money and time making sure it wouldn't be and even though minority fire fighters passed the test . . .

It seems to me New Haven throwing out the test was a political move.

The firefighters will win this case because I think New Haven is going to have a hard time proving the test was biased.

Debating affirmative action

Guerrobombero, Dallas, Texas — Fri, 08 May 2009 13:53:35 GMT

I am a firefighter/paramedic in Dallas raised in an Irish/Catholic home. Due to family's heritage and history of my ethnic group, I am very supportive of the Civil Rights movement, and affirmative action. Promotional exams are a huge contraversey in the Dallas Fire and Rescue. Especially the oral assessment stage which allows candidates to demonstrate skills such as leadership, judgment, and values. The dominant senitment among white firefighters to minority or women firefighters who do promote is extreme suspicion. I watched the discussion between Chris, Joan Walsh, and Pat Buchanan on the the Ricci case. My sentimants are with Joan on the bad history African-Americans, and Latinos have experienced in the fire service from my own people such as Irish-Catholics. I do agree with Chris with the unfairness doled by New Haven, Conn. scraping the results of the exam because the outcome wasn't to their liking. Buchanan expressed the feelings many in the fire service have toward promotional exams and minority firefighters. There is a huge clash of values and culture over the issue of race, and no one on the local level who is an officer is willing to address this issue head-on. But it will take political leadership on a local level in order for fire departments to step up and address this issue. The solutions necessary will be very hard to implement.

Debating affirmative action

Dick, Scofield, Utah — Fri, 08 May 2009 15:00:10 GMT

What would the reactions have been if the percentages of passers were reversed? If minorities passed at a higher rate than the white test-takers, would the results have been scrapped and promotions delayed? I don't think so.

Per the NAACP (I think he was from the NAACP) spokesman, does he want all multiple choice tests scrapped in favor of interviews so that a racial balance can be struck subjectively? I find it interesting to try to figure out why somebody believes what they believe.

It's a good debate, and Chris Matthews does a good job at allowing both sides articulate their positions. It is really hard to determine bias w/o a copy of the test.